Hoop-Dee-Doo songs removed - copyright About This Page:

[mechurchlady]

Hoop-Dee-Doo Polka and Chow Down song have been both been removed from the show. You can find online the new version. I do not know where Chow Down came from but did find the following for Hoop-Dee-Doo.

Perry Como and the Fontaine Sisters did Hoop-Dee-Doo which was an upbeat polka.
music by Milton De Lugg and lyrics by Frank Loesser. At least a dozen people and groups have done this song.
Perry Como - Fontane Sisters - Hoop-Dee-Doo - 1950 - YouTube

Bobby Vinton also did the song.
Bobby Vinton - Hoop-Dee-Doo Polka.wmv - YouTube

Frank Yankovic around 1960
Frankie Yankovic - Hoop Dee Doo Polka - YouTube

[CinderAbby]

Now that seems silly it was removed when so many other people have done the song. Of course I haven't Googled the new version yet to see it but I'll do that later.

[Caldercup]

Keep in mind that anyone who's recorded the song has paid the fee to record it, or they're breaking copyright law. Disney probably just doesn't want to pay for each performance, and (my guess) will probably come up with another song to use in its place.

Rights Management is nothing to sneeze at - the people who wrote the songs deserve to be compensated.

Consider how many restaurants no longer sing Happy Birthday to diners... they'd have to pay for each instance they use the song, which has been maintained under copyright laws.

[unewillow]

Well then, I guess it will be a "new" show when I see it in the fall...lol

[CinderAbby]

Rights Management is nothing to sneeze at - the people who wrote the songs deserve to be compensated.

You're completely right Eileen - but if Disney hasn't been paying to use the songs, I just find it silly'funny/unbelievable (whichever word you want to use) they've gotten away with it for something like 35 YEARS and are just now doing something about it.

[JoanneS]

Originally Posted by CinderAbby

You're completely right Eileen - but if Disney hasn't been paying to use the songs, I just find it silly'funny/unbelievable (whichever word you want to use) they've gotten away with it for something like 35 YEARS and are just now doing something about it.

They may have been paying for it, but now they've decided to cut expenses.

[Dave Marx]

In the parks, restaurants, and hotels, Disney pays what's called a "blanket license" to the various copyright organizations (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC). They pay a negotiated fee, and then the rights organizations figure out how to divvy up the funds. Disney would pay a lower fee if it reported every use of every song (which means the rights organization has less work and accurately gets the money to the right people), but the fee is the same, regardless of whose music is being used. The vast majority of that money just comes right back to Disney anyway, since most parks music is Disney music. At Studios, John Williams gets a piece, at MK the composers of Hello Dolly (among others) get a piece, but hardly a big piece in the grand scheme of things.

When music is used in movies and shows, it's more typically a per-use fee, negotiated directly with the copyright holder, not through the licensing agencies (the licensing agencies only handle certain kinds of use - juke boxes, radio airplay, TV "incidental" use (use in news and documentary productions, station-produced programs, and the like), background music for bars and restaurants, etc.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Disney had been treating Hoop De Doo as an extension of their theme park/hotel license, and the copyright holders successfully argued that Hoop De Doo (and presumably, Spirit of Aloha), was live theater use, which comes at a significantly higher price. When faced with such a circumstance, I can understand that Disney would much rather use music it owns than pay royalties to someone else. "Here's the money we owe you, but you won't be getting any more."

[CinderAbby]

They may have been paying for it, but now they've decided to cut expenses.

That may be, but if Disney knew ahead of time they were going to do that, don't you think they'd have said something or someone would have heard something along the lines of "changes coming to the HDD" versus how it seems to have happened - yesterday it was this way, today it's that way.

And I see too what Dave is saying, but what has brought about these changes? I Googled the show and it's been running since 1974 - that's 37 years. I find it very hard to believe that if Disney pays some sort of agency for the use of the music, that it's taken them this long to determine HDD is live theater.

And then there could be the fact that HDD may not be that popular anymore and needed a change to draw people in (but that still doesn't explain why it's short notice, not advertised changes). When we went to the HDD back in July the entire balcony was EMPTY and there were free tables on the floor. I've never seen it that empty - and that's pretty much what it was. I mean really, how often do you pay for Category 3 seats and sit on the floor in Category 1 seats? And I've looked at the floorplans online - we were definitely in the Category 1 area

[Dave Marx]

I find it very hard to believe that if Disney pays some sort of agency for the use of the music, that it's taken them this long to determine HDD is live theater.

It's not the agency (ASCAP, BMI, etc.) that cares, it's the individual copyright holder who cares, because the money they'd get from ASCAP/BMI is nothing compared to the money they ought to be getting for live show usage. In a case like this, the individual copyright owner is only likely to know about things they stumble over, or someone tells them about. So yes, 37 years could go by before someone in an office in NY learns a song he/she is administering is being used in a single show in the middle of the "Wilderness." If a song plays in the forest, the sound may not carry all the way to NY. There are computer programs that scour the electronic media for mention/use of songs (and people, companies, etc.). Live performance can't be monitored so easily.

Changes at Disney of this relatively small nature? Disney wouldn't, and rarely has, said a word. It's always been up to the rumor mill. When a new version of a show is in the works, someone sees the casting call posted. Maybe a CM rehearsing a new version of the show gets the word out, or a CM has heard that a show is going to be changed.

We happen to thirst for info about every little thing, but in the big scheme of things, it doesn't mean Disney has any obligation to feed that curiosity. The Disney Parks Blog is the best thing that's happened for folks like us, period. Before that, only changes that were of interest to the general media (likely to get space in newspapers or on TV) were announced. Even the Orlando Sentinel isn't likely to give the change to part of a show a mention. A change of this sort is below even the Disney Parks Blog's radar. It's not something the producers of the show would care to publicize, unless it was about a new song by Alan Menken or the Sherman Brothers, so they're not going to get word of it over to the bloggers.

So, maybe two songs are being changed in the HDDR. Maybe the reason they're changing has to do with copyrights/royalty payments. Will that matter to anyone but the CMs who perform the show, and fans who know and love the show just as it is and consider it some sort of Disney historical legacy that must be preserved?

To this day, around 13 years after the fact, There are still publicists who cringe if you mention the words, "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride." The publicity surrounding the closure in 1998 was so traumatic for Disney that I'd bet that, when they were planning to announce the closing of the Pleasure Island clubs (especially the Adventurers Club), they had strategy sessions titled, "How do we prevent a 'Mr. Toad' from happening this time?" Ever since Mr. Toad, their policy is to say nothing, or next to nothing, about a change until the attraction has been shuttered, and the construction fencing put up (how far into the construction process was it before they admitted they were building Bay Lake Tower?). There are exceptions, of course, like the Fantasyland Expansion and the Pleasure Island closings, but those were a little too large to keep out of the rumor mill (tell that many entertainment CMs that their contracts aren't going to be renewed, and there's little chance of it staying quiet). Their line of thinking is, "If we won't benefit from early publicity for this change, say nothing."

[Caldercup]

Originally Posted by Dave Marx

Changes at Disney of this relatively small nature? Disney wouldn't, and rarely has, said a word. "

And why would they? Do they want this sort of press to become more known -- that they were using someone's "property" and not paying them for it?

It's much more in Disney's style to make a change quietly and without fanfare... knowing that it'll be dredged on on sites across the internet, but (even so) only seen by a small percentage of the world.

[CinderAbby]

Changes at Disney of this relatively small nature? Disney wouldn't, and rarely has, said a word.

And why would they? Do they want this sort of press to become more known -- that they were using someone's "property" and not paying them for it?

You know, when this thread started, I was under the impression that it was big/noticeable changes to the HDD so that's why I was thinking that maybe Disney would have said something. I watched a YouTube video this morning of the HDD with the "new" song and to my untrained ear, it sound like the same melody in the background even though the words are different (I had to Youtube an old version as well). And after a few minutes, both were starting to give me a headache so whatever the changes, at least the "tone" of the show is the same