LOST-4/25 discussion***SPOILERS**** About This Page:

[eeyore8484]

I didn't see another thread, so here's one.
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Cool show! Somehow I figured that Mikhail (Patch) was still alive. Who is this girl that dropped from the sky? The writers have said that the Losties are not dead, so why did she say they were? Maybe the others made everyone in the real world think so?? Why did Sun trust Juliet? I think she just wanted to know so badly who the father is. I think Juliet is playing both sides to get what she wants. Next week looks really interesting: That's not Ben Locke wants Sawyer to kill.

[Caldercup]

I also didn't think that Mikhail was killed by the sonic barrier. (In fact, the way that Hurley pointed out the graveyard to Juliet makes me wonder if anyone on the island actually "stays" dead. There was just something creepy about the way she looked over at it. But, the producers have confirmed that no one who is actually dead comes back to life. Still... )

As for the "finding the plane" and "everybody died" piece... it could also be that Naomi is lying to the Losties. It all depends on who she's working for.

The thing that got Bob and me yelling at the TV last night was the "we gave him our word that we'd let him go." Whaaaatt?! When have the Others ever kept their word -- really kept their word and not manipulated the situation?

<<shaking head>>

ugh.
Eileen

[lauren-roxy]

Good show last night. I'm happy for Sun that the baby is Jin's. I just wonder if Juliet is telling the truth.

[disneyjessi]

Ok...due to a horrible backache I took some Tylenol PMs last night and slept thru my alarm reminder to see LOST. Can someone give me the low down??

[christiejay]

Naomi had a wound. Hurley fired off her flare gun by mistake, and Mikhail comes running out of the jungle, stops when he sees the group and turns and runs off. They tackle him, he offers his medical assistance if they will let him leave afterwards. Desmond agrees, since he wants to know why she had said his name and why she had a picture of him and Penny. Mikhail treats Naomi, says she will be fine, and they let him go. He steals Naomi's sat phone, but Jin gets it back, then Mikhail leaves, and the guys make a stretcher to carry her back to camp. She wakes up and asks what's going on. Hurley is alone with her at the time and tells her about the crash of Flight 815, and that they've been living there all this time. The show ends with her telling him that is impossible, because the news reported that the wreckage of the plane had been found with no survivors.

Meanwhile, my favorite part - Sun gets suspicious when Jack starts asking a lot of questions about her pregnancy. Kate tells her that Juliet had treated pregnant women on the island. Sun confronts Juliet about it and wants to know what happens to pregnant women, Juliet tells her they die. Kate drags Sun away. Juliet wakes Sun up in the middle of the night and tells her if she wants answers she should come with her to the medical hatch for an ultrasound to see how big the baby is, which will give the date of conception. Sun tells Juliet that Kate and Claire had been to that hatch and it was abandoned. Juliet states they just didn't know where to look. She also tells Sun that if she conceived off-island she has a pretty good chance of surviving. Once inside the hatch, Juliet opens one of the lockers and pulls a lever which opens a secret door. They go inside and there is all the stuff that had previously been in the rooms of the hatch, including all the stuff in the room that was to have been Aaron's nursery. The ultrasound shows that Sun is not quite 2 months pregnant, so she conceived on-island and the father is Jin. Juliet explains the island ups men's sperm count 5 times! She also tells Sun that most pregnant women only made it halfway through the 2nd trimester, and none made it to their third. So Sun now believes she only has 2 or 3 months to live, although Juliet assured her she would do all she could.

Flashback - shortly after their marriage, Sun was approached and blackmailed by a woman at a bus stop. Unless Sun wants Jin to be embarassed by his father being a fisherman and his mother being a prostitute, she must bring $100,000 in a few days or the woman will make that public. Sun investigates and finds Jin's father, whom Jin had said was dead. He tells Sun that Jin's mother had been with many men and abandoned the baby with him. So he told Jin that she had died. He asks Sun not to tell Jin about coming to see him or about his mother and she agrees. Having found the woman's story to be true, Sun asks her father for the money. He gives it to her on the condition that Jin would be indebted to him and would now be not a supervisor, but his direct employee - so that's how he came to be doing all the dirty work! She gives the money to the woman, having deduced that she is Jin's mother, and threatens to kill her if she bothers them again.

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So Mikhail must have had some type of implant that the sonic fence set off. Didn't one of you guys float that theory? He came so quickly after the flare went off. Had he been watching for Naomi in particular, or did he just happen to see a flare and go to investigate?

Maybe Sun is going to die ... they've just about told all of her story, and it would be a very dramatic end to her life, but I would hate to see her go.

But I was thinking this afternoon, they've just about told everybody's stories through the flashbacks. They are either going to have to start doing flashbacks on lots of other minor characters, or wrap up the series pretty soon if they intend to keep doing flashbacks every episode.

I don't think Juliet was lying to Sun, although I didn't think it was possible to see that much on an ultrasound at only 2 months. My 2-month ultrasound was not done on my abdomen (I don't want to get too graphic!), so I'm curious if Juliet did fib on the age of the baby. Plus if Sun said the morning sickness was over, seems like she'd be a little farther along, although everybody's different, so I guess it could be.

Just how does Juliet think she's going to get samples from all these women? And does she intend to do that before Ben comes back at the end of the week, or was their 1-week rendezvous just a chance for her to update him on her progress and get further instructions? Her comment to Ben (I hate you!) after the tape recorder went off gives me the impression she is only doing this because he has again promised her she can leave the island.

That secret room thing was pretty interesting to me - maybe that's how the various hatches are connected - via secret compartments. And to think that Kate was looking through those very lockers and could have eventually made it to the one with the lever inside - so close yet so far to finding out more secrets! But then I started wondering, if they had that secret compartment right there, why wasn't that locker cleaned out - the one where Kate found the theatrical glue and costumes/clothing?

So Locke wants Sawyer to kill Ben. But y'all must have gotten a better look at the preview than I did, to say that it's not Ben that Locke had. Do you think it was his father? And if so, if it obviously isn't Ben, then why would Sawyer go along with killing Locke's father? Unless, like my husband thinks, Locke's father is the real Mr. Sawyer, then our Sawyer would definitely go for it! Sounds like things might be coming together.

Did you see how many Others they showed in that one shot of the preview? Wow!

[Jennifer2003]

I'm too tired to reply other than to say last night was good. Poor Sun. And yes, I trust Juliet is telling the truth about the father...why else would she leave that message for Ben and say "I hate you".

Off to bed...

[Nala]

Just how many different languages does Naomi speak? And, I wonder what she really said to Mikhail. I don't speak Italian, but I got the impression that she didn't say "thank you" as he said she did.

The whole "there were no survivors" thing really threw me for a loop. I know we have been led to believe that the losties are not dead, so that makes me think either there is a huge cover up about the crash, or it was a line of bull Naomi was telling Hurley.

And what was up with Desmond letting Mikhail go? That was very odd and makes me wonder just how much he can be trusted. He gave his word? Big deal. The Others have done nothing but terrorize the losties. Who would blame him for going back on it? Come on, brother!

Juliet and Sun had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. I kept waiting for someone to show up and snatch Sun. Now I'm not so sure about Juliet. I think she is like Michael. Ben holds something she wants (getting off the island) just like he did Michael (Walt) and knows how to get anyone to do what he wants with a promise of giving them what they want in return. So just like Michael, Juliet will end up doing horrible things. It seems Ben is a master of putting people between a rock and a hard place.

[Caldercup]

Lostpedia (I know, I know... ) says that the language Naomi spoke to Mikhail wasn't Italian, it was Portuguese -- which relates to the copy of Catch-22 in her pouch also in Portuguese -- and what she said was definitely not "thank you." They are claiming that it sounds like "Eu não estou só" which is Portuguese (spoken with a Brazilian accent) for "I am not alone."

So, either she recognized Mikhail and gave him a private message or she's not in league with the Others and was trying to save her fellow parachutist(s).

I personally think she's in league with the others or they knew she was coming and would set off a flare. Mikhail arrived *very* quickly and was surprised to find the Losties and not just a parachutist or two.

What I did find very interesting is that Mikhail "died" at least a few days ago (Jack was gone for a week after Kate and Sawyer escaped.) So, why did he still have crusted blood in his ears and why was his neck and clothing still all bloody. With how it rains there, don't you think he'd have had a chance to wash...?

I think part of the way Juliet could determine the age of the baby fairly well is that the heart beat was audible. I think the earliest they can hear it is at 10 weeks, but more likely at 12 weeks. So, even though she warned Sun that she might not hear the heartbeat, they heard it and saw the fluttering. Well, they've been on the island between 87 and 90 days (according to Lostpedia ) and that means 12 weeks. So, either she and Jin reconciled pretty quickly or something's screwy with the way I understand it. (I'm starting to suspect that Juliet lied to both Sun and Ben.) But, I also had an early ultrasound with Calder and they were able to very closely estimate his gestational age by measuring him -- they were spot on!

As for Locke trying to get Sawyer to kill "Ben"... I think it's Cooper under that hood and he wants Sawyer to kill him because he can't do it himself.

Hmmmm...
Eileen

[eeyore8484]

Originally Posted by Caldercup

As for Locke trying to get Sawyer to kill "Ben"... I think it's Cooper under that hood and he wants Sawyer to kill him because he can't do it himself.

Hmmmm...
Eileen

Exactly! Why would Locke want to kill Ben, anyway? I think that it's Locke's dad and he is the real Sawyer that James was looking for.

[wvugrrrl]

I don't think that Naomi is necessarily in league with the Others. I think that Mikhail simply told the group that she said something different to cover up the fact that she said she wasn't alone. He really looked surprised when she said that, and the translation he gave was obviously a lie. He doesn't want the survivors to know that there are more people there/coming...especially when The Others can get to them first.

I also thought it was a bit suspicious that he came so quickly after the flare was fired. It seems to me that the Others probably heard/saw the helicopter crash the same as Desmond's group, and were simply looking for it the same as they were. Hurley's flare gave it away.

Other than speaking Desmond's name, did Naomi speak any English at all? Perhaps she can't speak English. By speaking multiple languages, she could simply be trying to find one which the group could speak.

As far as Desmond keeping his word and letting Mikhail go, while it's not what I think we as viewers would want, to me, it's not surprising at all. From what we've learned about Desmond thru flashbacks, one thing is very obvious - he is scared of commitment and avoids confrontation at all costs. Plus, does anyone really think he has the heart to submit someone to a possible torturing from Sayid? I mean, he can't stop saving Charlie's life, even though he realizes it isn't benefiting him and Charlie keeps "dying" no matter what he does.
I also think that while the survivors may hate the Others because of what they keep doing to them, Desmond really doesn't have a reason to dislike/mistrust them. He was able to live pretty peacefully in his Hatch until Locke blew a hole in the door and interrupted his work.

[HiddenMickey]

Juliet told Sun her baby was 56 days old (or some number close to that). She is not as far along as we had thought (8 weeks)....if Juliet is telling the truth. Sun figured she had 2 months left to live...given the middle of the 2nd trimester death guess.

[Caldercup]

Originally Posted by wvugrrrl

Other than speaking Desmond's name, did Naomi speak any English at all? Perhaps she can't speak English. By speaking multiple languages, she could simply be trying to find one which the group could speak.

She spoke English when she heard Hurley pretending to call his mom on the satellite phone. When he told her they were the survivors of Flight 815, she told Hurley that they "found the plane and there were no survivors." (She had an English accent, so is *possibly* someone who knows/works with Penny -- which makes it reasonble that she had that picture. Or jumped with Penny and Penny is the other person with her.)

I truly can't decide whether I trust her -- I think I was so "burnt" by Juliet's duplicity that I can't seem to trust anyone, not even Jack.

Goodness, I love this show!
Eileen

[goofysdtr]

ME TOO !

Oh, & Eileen, don't feel the need to apologize for the info you get off Lostpedia. I all the great tidbits you get from there! I'd never have found out about it if you hadn't mentioned it! Thanks!

[Caldercup]

Originally Posted by HiddenMickey

Juliet told Sun her baby was 56 days old (or some number close to that). She is not as far along as we had thought (8 weeks.

Here's why I think that Juliet must be lying. Heartbeats are generally heard after the 12th week (possibly by the 10th week, if the mother is fairly thin -- the fat over the lower tummy can muffle the sound.) So, if she's in the 8 week range, seeing the heart flutter might be possible, but it's unlikely that it'd be audible. I think Juliet is lying about the gestational age of the baby -- one to make Sun feel better about it being Jin's baby and two to mislead Ben. I think the baby is in the 12th week and isn't Jin's.

However, it's possible that the way the island "heals" people also speeds up the gestational progression of the fetus. <<shrug>> Then, all bets are off...

The other thing I would want to mention about Juliet and babies -- she says that she's been there three years and lost 9 women. As a scientist, this is a very tiny population to be trying to make major changes or significant improvements. Why would she have told Ben that she couldn't "fix" the problem when she'd only been there for 6 months or so. Sheesh, how many women could she have affected in that amount of time -- or even watched get into the 2nd trimester?

That's makes me scratch my head.
Eileen

PS - and... just an intriguing thought... Juliet splept with Goodwin about 90 days ago (the day of the crash.) What with the "good odds" of the increased sperm count of males on the island, she could also be pregnant. How 'bout them apples?!

[HiddenMickey]

Love your thoughts on that Eileen. I also think Juliet is misleading Ben and Sun.

Keep using Lostpedia to post......I don't go to other site (except EW.com) to read about LOST, so I like to hear all that stuff.