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[SARH7]

Sorry if this is the wrong place!

A friend of mine has a blog and often reviews children's books. One she did recently was a prince and princess type of story and in her review wrote that she liked it because it wasn't a "Disneyfied" princess story.

I thought to myself....whoa....wait a minute.... This girl knows zilch about Disney. I found it extremely unfair for her to make a comment like that. Do you know people who say things like this...and ones who probably never have even seen a Disney movie ever???

And you want to know something really really funny....her daughter's name is Aurora and had NO clue that was a Disney Princess's name!! She was all secretive about it before the baby was born and then afterwards, found out about Sleeping Beauty. I guarantee if she knew that ahead of time, she would have chosen something else!!

[Tonichelle]

I get tired of the 'anti-princess/fairytale' comments by the uber-feminist... I don't see why it's considered BAD to actually daydream about a prince... I do it, but I'm not stuck in the early 1900s mindset... or even the 1950s (though I do love the archetecture and clothing from that era lol)

I just wish people would enjoy the story for the STORY and not worry about it brainwashing children. Good grief! When did stories/movies/tv get the responsibility of training up a child in the way they should go?

[kimberlym322]

Originally Posted by SARH7

Sorry if this is the wrong place!

A friend of mine has a blog and often reviews children's books. One she did recently was a prince and princess type of story and in her review wrote that she liked it because it wasn't a "Disneyfied" princess story.

Can you post a comment to her and ask her why she said that it wasn't a "Disneyfied" princess story and ask her to explane the answer to you. If she never read a Disney book how can she say that???

I thought to myself....whoa....wait a minute.... This girl knows zilch about Disney. I found it extremely unfair for her to make a comment like that. Do you know people who say things like this...and ones who probably never have even seen a Disney movie ever???

Again ask her what makes her a expert on Disney to make that comment. Maybe buy her a Disney book!!

And you want to know something really really funny....her daughter's name is Aurora and had NO clue that was a Disney Princess's name!! She was all secretive about it before the baby was born and then afterwards, found out about Sleeping Beauty. I guarantee if she knew that ahead of time, she would have chosen something else!!

Are you close enough friend to be invited to the daughters birthday partys??? If so shower the child with anything and everything Disney. Just because the mom is not into Disney don't mean the child has to be put off of disney for life.

IMO people like her has something in their past to keep them from thinking about princes and happly ever afters. Either in her childhood with something to do with her family, as a teen/young adult that something with a guy/boyfriend or as an adult with a guy/boyfriend. I have a coz that is not very much in to the whole fairy tail bit thing because she made some bad choices as a young adult, she got married to a guy for money, went to work with my sister and she meet her current husband, she got prego with twins and was forced to get married. She went to MK 1 time and that was when she married the 2nd guy, she did not have fun because basicly when they got there they spent a total of 1 day at Diseny before they closed for the herracaine. The only time Disney ever closed and she was there. She is taking the twin this year hopefully with my family and she is doing it under protest. In her words there is other things to do in the world then going to Disney.

[hminneman8]

I understand that teaching young women to be self-sufficient and responsible is important. You cannot simply wait around for your prince to come rescue you. However, I also understand that having good role models (like Disney) that encourage pretend and imagination is important as well. Disney also promotes values like friendship, courteousness and generosity. Balance is key, Disney can be a great teaching tool, but as anything else it cannot take the place of human interaction and instruction.

[MorenaSangre]

*sigh* There are 2 sides to this argument...
It depends on what your friend meant by " a 'Disneyfied' princess story."

I'm a college humanities/mythology teacher, and I teach the "original" folk and fairy stories from the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Those stories aren't things we would commonly tell to our children today. Certainly, those tales were softened in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, but they were still far from the stories we know today. Disney's re-tellings of those tales have created a new cultural perception of many of the classical narratives, a perception that has set a new cultural standard. In the Disney version, the violence and harsh punishments for wrongdoing are expunged; the sense of a happy ending as the reward for hard work and good deeds is replaced by a more modern sensibility of coming of age and reward for inherent goodness.

I adore most Disney films. I love the beautiful princess and the handsome prince. And I think most of the princesses (particularly the modern gals) are strong, capable women. If your friend was referencing some patriarchal ideal of love, she's off base.

If your friend termed her book "non-disney" because the female lead was strong and capable, she's flat out wrong. Aurora is an independent woman willing to risk her life for love; Belle is a beautiful intellectual who is rewarded for her loyalty to her family and her willingness to look beyond appearance. If your friend's book had the kind of give-and-take of the original Cinderella, where the heroine is rewarded for her piety and love of her dead mother, and the stepsisters are punished for their cruelty by having their eyes pecked out by birds, she's right. One of the strongest criticisms of many classic Disney fairy tale movies is that the heroine is not rewarded for hard work or good deeds; she's just "sweet" and so good things happen to her. Many critics feel that there is an important lesson for children lost there.

When it comes down to it, I tend to view Disney movies (the traditional fairy tale ones at least) as serving a specific modern purpose. The original folk and fairy tales were cautionary stories, intended to teach survival skills in a harsh world and to explain the uncertain in the world around us. Their final reward is usually food or comfort. Fairy tales no longer serve that same purpose. In twentieth century America, Fairy Tales are intended to promote the ideal of positive relationships, establishment of identity, and the promise of happiness.

I think your friend needs to read up on her history of children's literature, her disney movies, and her sociology.

(oh, and for the record, Aurora was the Greco-Roman goddess of the dawn long before she was a Disney princess)

Just don't get me started on Peter Pan...I have to remember it was based on the Broadway show, not the book. I have to get mad at the show for utterly perverting Barrie's original...it's not Disney's fault...

[hminneman8]

Originally Posted by MorenaSangre

*sigh*
(oh, and for the record, Aurora was the Greco-Roman goddess of the dawn long before she was a mermaid)..

Actually, Aurora is Sleeping Beauty and Ariel is the mermaid.

[disney]

look at the bright side she has to go thru life with a real name princess from disney.
i think that is the funniest thing of all.

[HiddenMickey]

Thanks for taking the time to post this lesson! I really enjoyed reading it. I bet your classes are fascinating.

Originally Posted by MorenaSangre

*sigh* There are 2 sides to this argument...
It depends on what your friend meant by " a 'Disneyfied' princess story."

I'm a college humanities/mythology teacher, and I teach the "original" folk and fairy stories from the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. Those stories aren't things we would commonly tell to our children today. Certainly, those tales were softened in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, but they were still far from the stories we know today. Disney's re-tellings of those tales have created a new cultural perception of many of the classical narratives, a perception that has set a new cultural standard. In the Disney version, the violence and harsh punishments for wrongdoing are expunged; the sense of a happy ending as the reward for hard work and good deeds is replaced by a more modern sensibility of coming of age and reward for inherent goodness.

I adore most Disney films. I love the beautiful princess and the handsome prince. And I think most of the princesses (particularly the modern gals) are strong, capable women. If your friend was referencing some patriarchal ideal of love, she's off base.

If your friend termed her book "non-disney" because the female lead was strong and capable, she's flat out wrong. Aurora is an independent woman willing to risk her life for love; Belle is a beautiful intellectual who is rewarded for her loyalty to her family and her willingness to look beyond appearance. If your friend's book had the kind of give-and-take of the original Cinderella, where the heroine is rewarded for her piety and love of her dead mother, and the stepsisters are punished for their cruelty by having their eyes pecked out by birds, she's right. One of the strongest criticisms of many classic Disney fairy tale movies is that the heroine is not rewarded for hard work or good deeds; she's just "sweet" and so good things happen to her. Many critics feel that there is an important lesson for children lost there.

When it comes down to it, I tend to view Disney movies (the traditional fairy tale ones at least) as serving a specific modern purpose. The original folk and fairy tales were cautionary stories, intended to teach survival skills in a harsh world and to explain the uncertain in the world around us. Their final reward is usually food or comfort. Fairy tales no longer serve that same purpose. In twentieth century America, Fairy Tales are intended to promote the ideal of positive relationships, establishment of identity, and the promise of happiness.

I think your friend needs to read up on her history of children's literature, her disney movies, and her sociology.

(oh, and for the record, Aurora was the Greco-Roman goddess of the dawn long before she was a mermaid)

Just don't get me started on Peter Pan...I have to remember it was based on the Broadway show, not the book. I have to get mad at the show for utterly perverting Barrie's original...it's not Disney's fault...

[emtpej]

Originally Posted by HiddenMickey

Thanks for taking the time to post this lesson! I really enjoyed reading it. I bet your classes are fascinating.

I would love to hear some about this topic. Morena, can you recommend some good books on this subject?

I agree with hminneman8 that Disney can be useful as a teaching tool. That is why I watch TV and films and play games with our boys so I can give them the benefit of my experience and make sure they understand what I think is wrong and what I think is right. For instance, I explain to them why I don't like certain content in some of their videogames. Instead of abandoning them in medialand / Pinocchio 's Pleasure Island...

[pthomas]

Reminds me of a conversation I had with DD when she was about 5. She wanted to know why they always kill off the mother in Disney movies. I said, "Well, honey, if they didn't kill off the mother there would be no story because the mom would have fixed the problem."

We still laugh about that....especially when her dad does something stupidl :-D

[MorenaSangre]

Originally Posted by hminneman8

Actually, Aurora is Sleeping Beauty and Ariel is the mermaid.

Yeah, I know...that's what I get for writing posts at work and not re-editing.

[klositis]

MORENA,
You should think about starting an online class on this board for us!!That was great to read and thanks to Sara 7 for posting that comment to get the topic going!!! Very interesting!!

[alicia]

I was just thinking on this subject today. It seems to me from about 1980 on, the princesses we had were the heroes, not the other way around. Think on Mulan, Ariel, Belle. They were all the strong, go-getters, not waiting on the man to land in their lap. They were after something else, then the man seemed to drop in place, even the princesses saving their lives at times!

just my 2 cents!

[samogram97]

What a brilliant and wonderful discussion! I love it!

I think I am one of those uber feminists mentioned earlier. I'm the director of a women's resource center and have worked with the female victim of violence for 30 years and I love Disney and my favorite princess is Cinderella which first came out the year I was born

When I go on vacation - 29 more days - I am looking to escape! At WDW, life is beautiful and perfect. I believe in pixie dust too and dreaming making wishes come true

I have a sil who rolls her eyes everytime someone mentions our Disney trips. She's one of those people who always has to be "cool." I've never been cool and it's too late now, but I've usually been pretty happy. Pixie dust, maybe.... What do you think?

[loubell]

Oooh - I think your SIL and my sister might have been separated at birth! She just doesn't get it...

This is a wonderful thread, thanks for starting SARH7! And Morena, I really enjoyed reading your post - more please! I have always loved "fairy tales" - have a whole bookshelf dedicated just for those books! And if Disney were to go "by the book" in some cases, I think the movie would be rated R as some of the stories are rather dark and better suited for adults interested in a horror flick!

Personally, I think Disney has done better by heroines from The Little Mermaid on - the ladies are strong and quite capable of taking care of themselves. I recently saw Enchanted , and was struck by the fact that Disney had taken the time to address handling emotions in a character. Giselle got angry at Robert - she told him he made her angry, and she dealt with it. She actually dealt with her emotion - she didn't stuff it down, get violent, or turn to a crutch to handle it. I thought it was wonderful. As I tend to be an emotional eater, I need to be more like Giselle!