Any rumor of non-Med European cruise? About This Page:

[KathyFG]

Is there any rumor of DCL doing a non-Mediterranean cruise in the next few years? I recall several years back they did a northern European cruise. I think that or a British Isles/Ireland cruise would be hugely popular.

With the two new larger ships, I was hoping they would introduce something in Europe other than the Med.

Kathy G

[Dave Marx]

DCL is really tight-lipped that far in advance, so all I've heard so far is wishful thinking.

Apparently, DCL's Northern European sailings weren't as popular as Disney might have hoped, so I'm not expecting a return for the near-term future.

The larger ships exist solely to serve the biggest market, Bahamas/Caribbean. It's just a matter that they have the older ships free to move around more or less at will. Unfortunately, due to conditions in Mexico, DCL's hopes for that area were dashed, and economic conditions in Europe are making both Mediterranean and Northern European cruises riskier than they might be. Some Americans fly over, but they're still very dependent on selling cruises to Europeans as well.

The Alaska itineraries continue to be popular, so for now it's a matter of where they send the Magic in the summer. Likely is to keep her bouncing between Europe and the East Coast - a one-year absence in each market might build enough pent-up demand to make them more popular than if they were annual appearances. Still, if they do well with Caribbean itineraries out of Miami and Galveston, jaunts outside the Caribbean may be fewer and farther between.

[chezp]

Originally Posted by Dave Marx

DCL is really tight-lipped that far in advance, so all I've heard so far is wishful thinking.

Apparently, DCL's Northern European sailings weren't as popular as Disney might have hoped, so I'm not expecting a return for the near-term future.

The larger ships exist solely to serve the biggest market, Bahamas/Caribbean. It's just a matter that they have the older ships free to move around more or less at will. Unfortunately, due to conditions in Mexico, DCL's hopes for that area were dashed, and economic conditions in Europe are making both Mediterranean and Northern European cruises riskier than they might be. Some Americans fly over, but they're still very dependent on selling cruises to Europeans as well.

The Alaska itineraries continue to be popular, so for now it's a matter of where they send the Magic in the summer. Likely is to keep her bouncing between Europe and the East Coast - a one-year absence in each market might build enough pent-up demand to make them more popular than if they were annual appearances. Still, if they do well with Caribbean itineraries out of Miami and Galveston, jaunts outside the Caribbean may be fewer and farther between.

And the problem is that, quite frankly, Disney aren't doing much marketing when the Magic is in Europe. The last time it was over here, I'd have friends who were really shocked when I told them, as there was very little advertising of it. It doesn't appear in any brochure - and that's still how a lot of holidays are sold over there, through brochures - and there was minimum press coverage.

The other problem they've got is the price of the cruises. I would've dearly loved to have done the Baltic cruise, but there are a heck of a lot of cruise lines already on that route and seriously they're about half the price of Disney. Ok, so I know that you get more with Disney, hence the higher price, but again without the accompanying PR and marketing, most people won't know that.

I honestly think if they want to break the European market, which I think is do-able, they need to put a lot more resources into selling the cruises over here. It'll be interesting to see if that happens for 2013.

[Belle*]

That's really interesting to hear Chez! Thank you for sharing that. It does seem like it should have been quite a big deal when the ship was over there so I'm surprised to hear people were entirely unaware. There is such hoopla over her any time a ship moves!

[modisney]

I'd too would like to see continued offerings in Europe. It seems to me that right now it is loyal DCL cruisers who go on the European offerings. I think they'd attract more cruisers from the states for these sailings if they advertised them a bit more and lowered the price a bit. I also think airfare is a consideration as it really adds to the cost of that kind of vacation. We missed out for 2013 as we're going on the Fantasy so hopefully we can do DCL in Europe in the future.

[dmpyron]

To follow on to chezp, few of the European lines advertise (advertize in British?) in the US and the only US line I know that does any significant advertising in Europe is Celebrity. And Celebrity is less expensive than DCL was for almost identical routes in the Baltic.

I think DCL kind of muffed that one. Really, not many Americans think of the Baltic as a summer vacation type of place. And Russia and Latvia don't exactly have a lot of attraction to 9 year olds. I'd love to see the Hermitage, but my godson has little interest in something like that.

I've been expecting a Southern Caribbean itinerary in winter almost since the new ships were announced. Most people here know I missed that one. But now with Disney out of the Mexican Riv. market San Juan suddenly looks like a nice expansion. Would I jump on the Wonder to do something like that? In a heart beat. Is Galveston selling well? Not much anymore. If you don't have any more cabins, you can't sell them. (My Disney stock thanks each and every one of you for filling a cabin last year. )

[cubfancolleen]

I still find it hard to believe the Baltic itinerary wasn't more popular. We LOVED that cruise and would do it again given the chance (and resources!).

[dmpyron]

Well, as we all well know, Passporter readers have families who are above average.

[Dave Marx]

I think Americans interested in a northerly cruise during the summer think first of Alaska.

As to DCL marketing in Europe? DCL in the States has been able to coattail WDW marketing from the very beginning, as an add-on to a WDW vacation (in earlier days, DCL management reported to WDW management). They spend much less on cruise-only advertising in the States than the other major lines - fewer ships to fill. Not only is it harder to justify the expense on a per-room-sold basis, but with fewer staterooms to fill, there's that much less need.

A problem in Europe is that they can't effectively sell a Disneyland Paris-plus-cruise vacation - Mediterranean ports are a long way from Paris, and a cruise departing Le Havre or other Atlantic/Baltic port is only appealing during the summer. That likely means the cruise line has to go it alone - DLP management isn't going to give up precious seconds/square inches of its ads for something that doesn't benefit their own business (any more than they'd pitch WDW or DL vacations as part of a DLP ad).

Let's do the math. About 850 staterooms to sell on each voyage on the Magic/Wonder. About 18-20 week cruise season... If they're all 7-night itineraries, that's around 15,000 to 17,000 staterooms to fill. It sounds like a lot, but WDW has nearly twice that many rooms to fill, every week (and note that, these days, most Disney TV ads are selling Disney Parks - both WDW and DL, rather than WDW or DL alone). It would be very hard to justify the cost of the kind of media blitz needed to penetrate European consumer consciousness for the sake of an 18-20 week season for one ship. For the number of staterooms involved, Disney's most efficient route is through the travel agencies, and even there, the costs can be high. Consider all the U.S. travel agents who are brought to WDW, DL, and on cruises in order to "familiarize" them with the Disney product. All that airfare and all those complimentary staterooms, to sell an 18-week season for one ship?

Yes, maybe DCL marketing can do things more effectively than they have, but considering the cruise line is run by a European who used to run Disneyland Paris Resort, we can't accuse them of being clueless about marketing in Europe.

Disney did generate a whole lot of European publicity when the Dream and Fantasy were being built. Perhaps they'll begin to see some positive effect from that during upcoming European seasons.

[pixie08]

I know when I was on the Med cruise in 2010 over 50% of the passengers were from Spain and Italy. I think that is where they were marketing.

Personally I was bummed I missed the Northern Europe cruise, I hope they add in other types but I would assume the Meds are most popular.

[dmpyron]

Mary, we looked at one of the Baltic cruises (it would have put our anniversary right in the middle) and it was around $10K for the two of us. That was a major ouch. Celebrity was under $5K, but they didn't interest us as much.

Dave, my wife tells me that Paris to Marseilles on the TGV would be a very "doable" option, but that would mean DCL would have to use Marseilles as the departure port, and from what I can tell it's not a very good choice for larger ships.

[pixie08]

Dillon, I know, 10K is crazy! That was why we went with the Med versus the Baltic in 2010 (we got an insanely low deal on the Med) and I assume many others did as well. We did not do the Med in 2007 as some others had, it was a first time experience, so for us it worked. Now I would be looking for new things, and Europe is pricey (flight, euro etc.) that's why this year we chose Alaska out of Seattle this year.

We always try to throw in a DCL into our WdW vacations yearly if we can. I am not sure about 2013. I am thinking about the Fantasy, I was so-so on the Dream. I am a fan of the smaller ships, and I like the longer more exotic itineraries, but I am not paying 10K for 2 people