Epcot: Red-headed step-child? About This Page:

[WillCAD]

I noticed a few things while I was at WDW this month that had me both angry and sad at the same time.

First of all, I didn't see a completely clean bathroom the whole time I was there. In years past, all the bathrooms at WDW were pristine; each one had it's own CM to keep it so and they did a great job, no matter how busy the bathroom got. But over the past few years, I've noticed that dirty and messy bathrooms have been appearing with increasing frequency, and on this trip, EVERY bathroom was dirty. This, thanks to staffing cuts that now have each CM taking care of multiple bathrooms.

I also noticed that Epcot, in particular, seems to be in desperate need of a facelift. I'm not talking about new attractions or rehabs, I'm talking about the simple routine maintenance items that any public place needs periodically. Railings are not getting painted as often as they used to, sidewalks are cracking, colors are fading, and stuff is breaking without getting fixed. Leaving aside for a moment the massive amounts of money spent on building and marketing Mission: Space, Epcot seems to be getting a financial cold shoulder from Disney.

Disney seems determined to turn Epcot into a thrill-ride park. Epcot lovers of the world are very much against that move, citing 'Walt's vision' and the original intent of Epcot to be a place of education and culture as opposed to cheap thrills. But flagging attendance in Epcot may be the impetus Disney needs to transform a once-educational and adult-oriented park into a teen-oriented center for thrill rides and roller-coasters like Islands of Adventure.

And why is attendance flagging? Well, I wonder if the fact that Epcot is faded, dirty, has peeling paint and cracked sidewalks, not to mention the fact that Innoventions rarely gets anything new and exciting, The Land is a big snooze (except for the food courts and Garden Grill), The Wonders of Life is less than wonderful (except for Cranium Command), and the Living Seas are dieing a slow, painful death from neglect, might have something to do with people staying away in droves.

Epcot was never meant to be static. It needs new infusions of technology and culture in each pavilion on a regular basis to prevent the park from becoming stale and outdated. But Disney seems unwilling to spend the money it takes to keep the place up-to-date and fresh, instead gambling on multi-million-dollar thrill rides. Are they doing this on purpose? I keep having visions of the movie Major League, in which an owner deliberately sabotages her team so attendance will fall, giving her an out to move the team to another city.

Instead of Epcot, will there one day be a park called Disney's Epic Adventure, full of cheap thrills and screams, but lacking in culture and educational value? Will adults who don't or can't ride thrill rides be shut out of Epcot?

Why can't they even keep the darn bathrooms clean!?

[simbarel]

I gotta admit...Epcot is our least favorite park. It may have started as an adult/educational-themed park, but it's still nothing like what Walt truly intended. That, and we find all the corporate sponsorship kinda overwhelming (if not insulting.) However, since Epcot is so revered around these parts I was looking forward to giving the old bird a second look-see; putting on a new hat and checking it out from a different perspective...but from what you're saying, sounds like we may be let down even more (although, I'm not opposed to new 'teenager' rides.)

You sound disappointed--I hope the upkeep gets better for Epcot-loving folks like you...and possible future ones like me!

[ajinterpreters]

I have to totally agree!!!! I have a huge fish tank in my house and its almost as good as the Living Seas!!!! None of the smaller tanks were working, one of them was half filled and water just pouring into it, they were not doing a water change either! Inside the main tank just looked horrible! I am also an avid scuba diver and would never pay the $120 to dive in that! While we were waiting to get in, we were in that large round room right before you watch the movie and my GF got sick so we ran to the EMERGENCY exit, and it was CHAINED shut!!!

The bathroom situation is as bad as you say it is!!!! Some of them were down right nasty and I told some CM's about it.

I have been thinking the same things that you are but I didnt know how the reception would be to them on the boards so I havent said anything yet, so thanks for letting me vent as well!!!

jeffrey

[DisneyDoll]

The same problems exsist over here at Disneyland. Peeling paint, burnt out lights and dirty bathrooms are just some of the problems. It seems to me that this mismanagement is coming from the tip top of the company. Just another reason that Eisner needs to leave and someone fresh can "clean" things up.

[graygables]

I was thinking it might be my "magical memory" from 10 yrs ago gone wrong (I could *swear* that Mexico had more steps out front than that! ), but you are right. The colors seemed dimmer, the Living Seas lacked the "umph" I remember (but Mickey *was* swimming right next to our Coral Reef table...how can it get better than that?!). The Imagination Pavilion was horrible as was the WoL. I was even disappointed with the Mission Space pavilion, since I can't go on the ride, I was hoping for a cool "landing area", but it was really just a couple of video games and a shop.

Epcot was always my favorite (my 1st ever trip was just after the opening and I will always remember how impressed the CM driving the tram was that I knew "Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow"! LOL!). Having interviewed Disney uppity-ups for a college paper and spent some time in the offices in Burbank, I'm terribly disappointed that they've let Walt's dream fade so much in such a short amount of time. I was very upset that my DH and little DDs didn't get to see what I remembered the best, Figment and Dreamfinder, the whole Imagination Pavilion where my brother and I "played" (we were college students!) for hours, the colors and textures in the Living Seas, Veggie, Veggie, Fruit, Fruit, for crying out loud! I didn't venture into the "Test Track" pavilion, but I remember hanging out there with my Dad, looking at the prototype cars that we shook our heads and said, "No way" only to have them show up on the market a few years later.

I understand that Walt didn't want it to be stagnant, but I don't think he wanted barf bags rides either. I hope that someone wakes up and can bring Epcot back so that my little DDs can see what I saw in it...smart magic.

[Goofy62]

Hi all: Just my two cents. First I believe that due to all the discounts more people that normally would not come to Disney are going and they are not as responsible. On our last visit I saw far to many people (adults and Children) just pitching their garbage on the ground and in the rest rooms just leaving their hand towels and diapers everywhere, and this is not a CM's problem....Yes they are understaffed but we as guests need to be more vigilant and help keep our treasured destinations clean, remember we are the guests and we don't trash our friends homes! As far as corporate sponsers go, that was the true geniuos of Walt Disney himself. He never had the money to do anything he wanted but was able to get those with the money to form partnerships with him to bankroll his projects, this includes the first Mickey Mouse shows, Snow White, Disneyland (the park and the TV shows) and Disney World. And some of the partnerships where great and others not so (US Steel was the sponser of the Contempory Resort but pulled out at the last minute, days before the grand opening of WDW in '71, and Roy Disney had to get many of his new CM and others to finish the landscaping and such). So in conclusion lets help keep our place clean! Remember the magic. Jerry

[Pooh1219]

I noticed some of the same when there on my last trip, most especially the rest rooms. The thing that makes me wonder is why are people almost afraid to comment on anything in a detrimental way on many of the Disney boards? It doesn't mean you don't love WDW, it just means that some of it is slipping and we're making a comment about it. It's my favorite vacation destination, and if there's something about it that's starting to stink, I'll mention it. It's just the attitude of everything is always perfect in the World that allows WDW management to get away with keeping things in not-so-perfect shape, because they know that a certain percentage of customers will accept whatever they offer just because it's Disney.

[Shell_of_the_South]

Will, I just wanted to say that you did a great job of expressing your feelings about the situation at Epcot. Have you thought about writing Disney and telling them? I thought your post was very articulate and objective without being overly judgemental.



I would tell Disney the same things you just told us. I am a believer in letting your voice be heard. So I suggest this to everyone who posted concerns about this park. Let Disney know!

[Irene]

[ QUOTE ]
Will, I just wanted to say that you did a great job of expressing your feelings about the situation at Epcot. Have you thought about writing Disney and telling them? I thought your post was very articulate and objective without being overly judgemental.

I would tell Disney the same things you just told us. I am a believer in letting your voice be heard. So I suggest this to everyone who posted concerns about this park. Let Disney know!

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea ... who do you suggest the letter be sent to. I often feel letters go to the big empty black hole.

[WillCAD]

MichelleC, thanks for the complimets. I have indeed thought of sending those sentiments to WDW management, but haven't gotten around to it. When I do, I think I'll probably send them by snail mail directly to the office of the president of WDW, whose name I think is Al Wiess.

Goofy62, I think you should re-read your post; there are a few things in it that don't make sense to me, and I think maybe you just didn't express your feelings acurately.

Remember that people pitch garbage on the ground everywhere. In the past, WDW had a huge army of CMs whose job it was to police the grounds and keep them squeaky clean. In the past few years, that army of custodial CMs has been reduced greatly in number, making it impossible for those who remain to keep up with the volume of garbage hitting the ground on a daily basis. It's not that there are more sloppy Guests these days, it's just that there are fewer custodial CMs to clean up the place.

While I agree that throwing trash on the ground instead of walking the 30 feet to the next trash can is a sign of a sloppy, rude, careless, and unthinking Guest, I don't agree that it's entirely the Guests' problem. There are CMs who are employed specifically to keep the grounds clean, and it is thier responsibility to pick up after the rude Guests. However, since thier ranks have been decimated by recent cutbacks, they are simply overwhelmed and can't possibly do the job as well as they used to when there were many more of them.

[ QUOTE ]
First I believe that due to all the discounts more people that normally would not come to Disney are going and they are not as responsible.

[/ QUOTE ]

That statement implies that poor people (who wouldn't go to WDW without discounts) are slobs while people with more money (who can afford WDW without discounts) are more responsible and clean. I hope that was just a misphrasing, because it is certainly not true.

[mrsmaup]

[ QUOTE ]
First I believe that due to all the discounts more people that normally would not come to Disney are going and they are not as responsible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I did not realize that I was not responsible. We are a military family living on a TSgt's salary. If you have ever looked that up, your would realize that we are fairly close to the poverty line and in fact were below the poverty line for most of our 15 year marriage, until they started giving better pay raises.

We have to scrimp and save for every trip we make to Disneyland and to our last trip to WDW. In fact, if it was not for the military promotion at WDW, we would never have been able to go this year or next year, probably not until he retires in 06 and gets a much better paying job.

All that being said, we have NEVER thrown litter on the ground, nor dirtied up a bathroom w/papertowels, etc. We are clean and neat and dont litter. We were polite to all we met, didnt steal anything and even tidied up our beds at CBR every morning AND took our garbage out, so mousekeeping had an easier time. Our children are polite and well manered and never ran wild running through flowerbeds, etc.

On the flip side, i did see several families that seemed very well off(clothing, rocks on fingers, etc) who were total slobs and obnixious and rude. I would not however lump everyone w/money into that catagory.

Im sure you didnt mean it the way you stated it. I just wanted to make sure I let you know the view of a "poor" person.

I also agree that service and quality has gone WAY down in both WDW and Disneyland. I grew up near Disneyland and have been well over a hundred times over the last 33 years and its nothing like it was 15 years ago, or even 10 years ago. This was our first trip to WDW, and while I was impressed overall w/the quality and cm's, there were definately areas that were NOT up to Disney standards.

We did spend a day in Epcot and I didnt really notice any problems, other than a septic tank being pumped right in front of the fish and chips shop in teh UK, which produced a terrible smell and made us hurry through Jolly old England. Other than that I never really noticed anything that raised my eyebrows, but I also wasnt paying very good attention.

Have a wonderful Day all!

[mattjs]

Epcot's still my favorite so I see it through rose colored glasses. Still, it deffinitely needs new life. Test Track and Mission Space are a pretty good start, but hopefully the rumor about lots more investment is true. I'd say Epcot needs (in order):



* 2 new countries

* Completely redo Living Seas or scrap it for something new

* Completely redo WoL or scrap for something new too

* New characterless night parade like ToN

* Fill Inoventions with cool prototype stuff (or just drop it altogether) make it a real draw after SSE.



With changes along those lines, I'd be happy for a long, long time.

[Goofy62]

Hi WilCad : I wan not talking about poor people, I'm talking about the cheapskates out there that felt like they were geting one over on Disney by taking advantage of the discounts. I don't come from a very well off family myself (my Dad never made it past Tsgt in Airforce Either and we never were able to make the trip to WDW). So if I offended anyone that was not my intent, just voicing my opinion as to the way Disney World has changed in my 8 years of going. Remember the Magic. Jerry

[mrsmaup]

I think I understand what you are saying now. Thanks for clearing it up!

Have a wonderful day!

[LoriMistress]

This may be a bit odd, but to me, Epcot was nice but also boring. I loved the idea of looking at other countries, but over all, it was kind of boring. Test Track was highly over-rated (not only was it not fun, but rammed nothing but GM everywhere). I loved Mission Space. Personally, I think that Walt himself would be proud. It's extremely educational, and I couldn't find a product placement anywhere, but it was also fun. I personally think that they do need another parade. Maybe something like a round the world parade (sort of like It's a small word, but not annoying, and less of a stereo type). Maybe they need another ride or two that follow the lines of education and fun (like maybe a hot-air ballon ride), or planes of the future...something like that...who knows...my ideas are kind of lame. And I didn't notice certain things like paint chipping or sidewalks cracked. But that's just me. Than again, I only been to WDW once.